sig rattler vs springfield saint

Purely on the rifle's features / traits wise, Update: im being told that both rifles are available for ~$1000 should I wait; i guess the extra $$$ is demand / price gouging for the saint. I've handled a Saint, and I would definitely go with the Sig. These guns eventually faded awaypartially because of their ammunition and because it was easier to use a variant of the M4 Carbinebut the need did not. Apr 24, 2017 Also, unlike the HK MP7 and FN P90, you can actually buy a Springfield Armory PDW. One set of Keymod holes was located on the underside at 6 oclock. Over ten trigger pulls we never got the same reading twice. MSRP: $2,720; sigsauer.com. Two additional components from Bravo Company contributed to the Saints distinctive lines. Its so small you barely know its there, and its also rated for sub- and supersonic loads. The other rifles did not suffer this complaint. Working the charging handle was smooth and revealed no linear movement. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD. The metal loop at the heel of buttplate was free swinging. The Judge has been promoted! This is a 100-yard rifle. You got the CZ shadow 2 orange is it 9mm or 40 cal. The barrel has a 1:8-inch twist and is Melonite coated. Target order was dictated as a circuit of left, center, right, left, center, right, and so on. The civilian version of the U.S. Army's new XM7 rifle. .224 Valkyrie Small Precision Rifle Cartridge: Everything You Need to Know, Buyer Beware: Buying 'Bargain' Guns Can Be Risky. When it comes to affordability, most figured Palmetto State Armory was going to show up sooner or later on this list. With the provided 20-round Magpul PMAG in place, the PDW weighs 5 pounds, 10 ounces. Would I want to get shot with it at 200 yards? I really liked the Blue TS2 ,so in the end she was getting one for me for a surprise for my birthday . Nice Sig collection BET7, And I also play the field , I really like my Black Rain Ordnance 5.56 , I would like to add a couple more Black Rains to my collection . Targets left and center showed four A-zone hits, but one shot on each target was outside of the A-zone. Thats pretty much what youd expect from a V-MAX. Between the friendly trigger, which our shooter was able to stage as we moved from target to target, and some adrenalin, we had added one full circuit, even if all 15 shots werent perfect. They said nothing as short as the rattler. Yes, we would have preferred a flat-top gas block with rail for attaching a folding front sight, and were not exactly sure how to connect a sling to the front end without pulling on the barrel, but were not sure there is much else wrong. A free-float handguard would likely make this the perfect carbine. Instead, its plenty accurate for its intended purpose. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and . If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, its perfect. Like the MPX, the MCX uses a short-stroke gas piston system, which does away with the need for a buffer system, and the weapon can use a folding stock or no stock at all. Furthermore, Sig has a much higher percentage of parts and weapons produced in house, which allows them to control quality much more closely, where as Springfield assembles and builds only a fraction of their product line, AFAIK. SAINT VICTOR PIST 300BLK 30+1. April 23, 2020 By Sean Utley While there are many good suppressors available, in my experience there are a few notable brands and models which, from a durability/longevity standpoint, I would consider first when looking to purchase a suppressor. Our Team Said: The CMMG Mk4T showed extremely good balance. Essentially it boils down to performance and suppressibility. Jeff Bradley shows off the Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR) from Christensen Arms at SHOT Show 2023. I'm like seriously I could of got the checkmate . The Springfield Armory Saint Victor .308 was announced 2 months after SIG had secured the sale with India in April 2019. Honestly, theres not a ton to ballyhoo on the pistol other than it runs, dependably so. Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. Though its important to enter this aspect of the cartridge with eyes wide open. The Black Hills 60-grain V-Max rounds produced 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the 77-grain SIG Sauer rounds printed 0.9-inch-wide groups. Joe Kurtenbach, Executive Editor of Gun & Ammo, and John Myles from Smith & Wesson discuss features of the Equalizer 9mm micro-compact pistol and new-for-2023 M&P 5.7. Substantial in some circumstances. Jacketed bullets can fragment at higher velocities due to high twist rates. Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. The test shooter said he was on target inside the A-zone, but the trigger didnt respond. Dont be fooled, a 16-inch carbine in Blackout will outperform a 9-inch Blackout pistol. Essentially, this makes the suppressors job easier, since it has less expanding gas to dissipate. Most familiar with ARs know you dont have to go out and buy one specially chambered for the want-to-be 7.6239mm clone. I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. The Sig Sauer Rattler. What surprised me as much as the complete reliability was how soft-shooting the PDW was. Use of our website(s) implies understanding of our content disclaimer and privacy policy. Its solid visual form led us to refer to it as a forend rather than a handguard. The new rifle is built on an aluminum billet chassis with carbon-fiber forend and cheek riser featuring V-block bedding. Suppressed, the Rattler ran everything on the supersonic setting (less gas). Support gear used:***Splatterburst Targetshttps://amzn.to/2Kera7g***Peltor Sport RangeGuard Hearing Protectionhttps://amzn.to/2LsLUbXThe Springfield XDM Elit. For more information, please see our So these two were on my list . The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. Sure, they are a ton of fun at the range, teaching children how to shoot, and for use in defending the homestead, but consider them for hunting applications as well. I would deploy this as a dedicated entry rifle in a heartbeat. Also, its loaded with frills not often found at this price point. Learn how your comment data is processed. As to the tale of the tape, the gun has a 10.5-inch cold hammer-forged barrel (1:7 twist) and comes in at a very agile 5.8 pounds. Runs great. Do Pistols Benefit From Popular Aftermarket Modifications? The TaurusTX 22 Compact delivers class-leading reliability, capacity, and shootability in a 22 LR platform, and it's cut for a slide-mounted mini red dot. Now with the updated SAINT Edge PDW goes further, by going smaller. It was very easy to move quickly, and the gun always felt light. Springfield currently doesnt have any plans for a version in .300 AAC Blackout, but (hint hint) it would be a very smart move, as the .300 BLK performs much better out of short barrels than the 5.56. But we loved the buttpad and the overall contour of the stock. According to the Sig Rep on ARFCOM: "6.75"/LVAW barrel was/is not made to be fired unsuppressed. Privacy Policy. However, moving to the Barnes, Hornady and Lehigh Defense rounds changed things. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. This gun was designed from the ground up to be as discrete as possible while retaining all the capabilities of the MCX. The Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX had fully expanded by 7 inches, leaving a perfectly mushroomed bullet weighing 108 grains at 26 inches. Keep Reading. A quick note on sub- and supersonic ammunition and suppression. (Tie) LWRC Smg-45 ($3k?fuck!) He called it a stutter. The grip was certainly not traditional, offering a very friendly profile, including a pinkie ledge, at the bottom and an extended backstrap up over the web of the hand. But I also own several Springfields (M1As in 308 & 6.5cm, Saint Ar15 when it first came out, compact XDe, XDs & XD Mod2 all in 45s, TRPs in 45 & 10mm and the now discontinued Range Officer in 45). The idea was to replace 9mm submachine guns for support troops and special operations units with something more powerful that wasnt a full-sized, Tactical Life Gun Magazine: Gun news, gun reviews and gun magazines for gun enthusiasts, military and law enforcement, You use of this website constitutes and manifests your acceptance of our, ENTER TO WIN > Free Gun Friday for your chance to WIN the SIG Sauer P320 AXG Legion and Black Hills HoneyBadger Ammo, Anderson Manufacturing Kiger-9c Pro: Upgrades and EDC Ready, Stow it and Go: The Volquartsen 22 LR VT2 Takedown Rifle. models. SIG MCX Rattler For Sale SIG Rattler and SIG MCX Rattler 5.56/300Blk Pistols For Sale Online All new SIG MCX Rattler Pistols are now available in 5.56 and 300 Blackout calibers. By 5george31 in forum Rifles Replies: 92 Last Post: November 3rd, 2016, 05:28 AM. If the general shape of Springfields PDW looks a little familiar to you, theres a reason for that. Like all things in life, this entails tradeoffs. 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While the plastic handguard and the buttstock showed a little bit of play, fit and function of the more important parts of the M400 Classic were exceptional. Sig Sauer may have the answer in the MCX Rattler PCB! They are dead to me. Both short-barreled rifle (SBR) and pistol variants of the MCX Rattler are available. And in the end after a couple of weeks go by she said to my are you happy with your choice I said of course , why I said . This may be true for some configurations, in certain environments, with particular loads. The result was more shots fired within the allotted time limit. Sig Sauer The AR Pistol Afield. It began in earnest in the late 1980s. As far as apples to apples, do your research and see for yourself that you will get slightly better product with a Springfield compared to a sig, better coatings on barrel, BCG (both melonite) and a Nickel boron coated trigger. Fitting right into this slot is the Saint Victor 300 Blackout Pistol. The companys thinking must be a suppressor is going on there anyway, so cut costs with the standard muzzle device. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. Our Suppressor Guru, seen here with a SIG Sauer SRD-762 on a SIG Rattler, provides some pointers. Nevertheless, we were able to score A-zone hits with all 12 rounds fired before time ran out. The visual theme of the Saint was that it looks to be one piece instead of an upper and lower, or as some say, it looks monolithic. Much of their stuff is imported and rebranded. Springfield Armory's $899 Saint, the manufacturer's first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. I wrote SilencerCo to ask about the Hybrid compatibility. A light, compact AR pistol in the right caliber is easy to carry for long distances . I bought a Tread on a whim. In late 2019, Springfield released the SAINT Pistol, featuring upgraded components and a retail price of just $849. Decibels dont drop like flies with every load. I had several concerns due to its comically short barrel, its accuracy, reliability and velocity. This article on theSIG MCX Rattler is from the May/June 2018 issue of Tactical Life magazine. I fired the Rattler off-hand from 10 and 15 yards with the earlier test loads and a few others, including Winchesters 150-grain Deer Season XP ammunition and Noslers 220-grain BTs. The 300 Blackout pistol model is no different, but few shooters miss the bells and whistles with a gun that goes bang with every trigger pull and hits the mark. Not as expensive as their Carbon Fiber wrapped Barrel model, but probably my most costly AR15 to date. Hampering this a bit out of the box is a mil-spec clone trigger, easily rectified with your favorite upgrade model. I will not consider another firearm from the Saint line ever again. Granted you give up some ballistic performance, but gain a gat easy to transport and, yes, conceal (say in a backpack). For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. As such, the challenge for Springfield Armory was to offer an AR-15 that distinguished itself from the competition and was affordably priced. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201for-carve-out/, http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685, https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017cal-gun-dealer, http://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/03/5406606027600/, St. Gabriel Possenti Patron Saint of Handgunners, If this is your first visit, be sure to Though, the pistol is a 1:8 twist rate affair. Its also rated for rounds up to the .300 Winchester Magnum, so it wont have issues with higher-pressure 300 Blackout loads. That said, most of the 6.75" barrels shoot supers unsuppressed just fine. I got my hands on the SBR variant, which features a skeletonized stock that folds flat against the left side of the receiver without obstructing the controls. and at a gun show I saw the Sig Cross bolt rifle . Caliber + 300 BLK; 5.56 NATO; 7.62x39 . Here are my personal Pros & Cons of the Saint Victor (FEATURELESS, CA Compliant version) Pros: - Comes with basic flip-up sights ready to go out of box - Full length M-Lok rail slots (TREAD seems to stop 8/10 of the way from the front) - Lighter Cons: - $1400+tax - 2 port MB rather than M400's 3 port (any difference in felt recoil?) So, I spread the wealth equally. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. The A-zone measured 11 inches tall and about 5.75 inches wide. Non-Lethal Personal & Home Defense with Byrna, Range Tested: EAA Girsan Pistols & Shotguns, New for 2023: Christensen Arms Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR), New for 2023: All-American RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol, New for 2023: FN Rush 9Ti Pistol Suppressor, New Big Bore Pistols for 2023: FN 510 Tactical and FN 545 Tactical, New for 2023: FN SCAR 15P Rifle Caliber Pistol, First Look: Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum Revolver With 10.5-Inch Barrel, New-for-2023 Taurus Judge Executive Grade 410/.45 Colt Revolver, Smith & Wesson Equalizer and the Brand New M&P 5.7 Pistol. Anybody who has experience with these I would appreciate your opinions. Eventually, ammo manufacturers answered the call, and now dozens offer 300 Blackout loads for a variety of uses. We also tested with 77-grain OTM 223 Remington rounds manufactured by SIG Sauer. I am reminded that short barrels are inherently more accurate as there is less flexing during the recoil cycle. With the shooter lined up on the center target, the object was to land as many hits as possible into the central A-zone of each paper target within a fixed 10-second time limit. The second can was the Dead Air Sandman-K, which is slightly heavier at 12.8 ounces yet only 0.7 inches longer. Barrel-twist rate was 1:7, and breaking down the rifle revealed a reduced-mass hammer. The new-for-2023 lineup includes ultralight hunting stocks and a VGA 2-pound adjustable vertical-grip stock. To extend it, just give the brace a vigorous yank. The trigger is Springfields flat trigger, first introduced on the Saint Victor line. Garmin Tactix 7 Pro Ballistic Solar-Powered GPS Smartwatch: First Look, How to Choose the Best Scope Reticle for Your Application, Colt King Cobra Target 22LR Rimfire Revolver: New for 2022, Self-Defense Handgun and Ammo Options for People With Dexterity and Strength Issues, 5 Best Red-Dot Optics for SIG Sauer P365X & XL Pistols. The two most well-known modern PDWs are the FN P90 and the HK MP7. I have builds from BCM, Springfield, Noveske and PSA. Another design goal was optimized sound suppressor use, so sub- and supersonic 300 Blackout loads were developed. So had to go home and think about it , while driving she asked which one I liked , i like them all but of course . Awesome pistol by the way. To order a copy and subscribe, visitoutdoorgroupstore.com. With the brace collapsed, it is just 18.75 inches long. Ruger's multi-role small frame autoloading rifle - Sear - combines AR-10 power with AR-15 Portability. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. I put a ton of ammunition through this rifle, and everything workedtypical of the MCX series. The hammer and trigger components were treated to a silvery nickel-boron coating. and our It has a cone-within-a-cup two-piece design reminiscent of the Noveske KX3. In addition, the fit and finish of the operational parts, most important the consistency of the trigger, makes this carbine worth the extra money. Both companies have reputations for occasional issues with their QC, but Sig certainly produces a higher tier product overall. Short and sweet, the 5.5-inch barreled MCX Rattler is as compact as 300 Blackout pistols come. Looking past the outdated grip and buttstock, this is a very good rifle that deserved a much better trigger. Shooting the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max 223 ammunition, we were rewarded with five-shot groups that measured an average of just 0.6 inch across. Knock off mp5 in 9mm I had a mpx pistol 3yrs ago and while funseems about 100% pointless knowing todays ballistic capabilities of the 556 &300. blbennett1288 Rivet. Springfield incorporates some nice accessories from Reptilia Corp. like the CQG pistol grip, which has a more vertical angle than the standard AR grip. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. The system is also completely modular like the MPX. The upper circumference was reduced, guiding the index finger to the trigger. Keeping all the shots inside the A-zone was important, but for our purposes we wanted to know what characteristics were helping or hindering the shooter. The new RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol from Rock Island Armory features a patented RVS Recoil system that maximizes barrel mass and linear movement to give shooters super soft recoil. After our run with the Saint, all three targets showed five hits. So move along . The first was the SilencerCo Omega 9K, which is only 4.7 inches long and weighs 7.2 ounces. Full Member. June 22nd, 2017, 09:15 PM #2. . At the gun expo my wife shoot the Orange in 40 cal and she made me shoot it which at the time I wasn't interested in doing , we had two tickets left for ammo so I got in line and lets say after shooting it and hitting metal 10 out 10 I was impressed , I have never shoot any thing as smooth as butter , the gun just was a work of metal and design . Each block of calibrated Clear Ballistics gel measured 4 by 4 by 17 inches. Surrounding the barrel and piston system is a 5-inch, free-floating M-LOK handguard. 9mm this thing is a work of art and insanely smooth as silk , it shoots its self ..LOL. The lower is mil-spec, so an upper change is no different than any other lower. Eric Poole and Tom Beckstrand test the Aimpoint Acro P-2 against one of red dot sights' biggest myths: distance. I wanted to see if the bullets would expand at close range given their lower velocities. The CMMGs single-finger-groove plastic grip is almost extinct because the divider can be uncomfortable and never really seems to be in the right place. Whereas releasing the bolt is aided by the larger platform, setting the lock means pressing down on the smaller end. It boasts the nice extra of a forward flash diverter, clearing the line of sight for fast follow-ups and target acquisition. The fit between the top and bottom end of the CMMG Mk4T was admirably tight, yet the takedown pin was easy to operate. I really like the trigger in the Saint but the 716i has really good features too. Our Team Said: When it comes to paying more for a rifle, or any firearm for that matter, its easy to check off a list of features to justify a higher price tag. The Saint is one of the most user-friendly versions of this user-friendly platform. And After shooting the CZ 75 Tatical sport orange I was in love . With the brace fully extended, the pistol is 23.5-inches in length. No problems except for the gas blowback. We did, however, find the bolt catch to be weak. Colt Model 1861 Special Musket: What's Its Value? Our days at the range were somewhat windy, so waiting for a lull before releasing a shot was standard procedure. It also directs sound and blast forward, away from the shooter and provides some flash reduction. So me and the wife was going to the local gun shop so I could buy my Springfield Hellcat RDP , While I was doing my paper work the wife was looking around and was checking out some hand guns she was looking at the CZ's They had the Shadow 2 orange in 9mm $1,900 . Many contend a 1:8 twist will stabilize heavy subsonic bullets. So much so that we almost took to calling it a three-stage trigger. Fun as all get out to rattle off the range. I realize in the current climate you may have to take what you can get. Maybe they will give me some clarity. Is the Rattler a precision instrument? In measuring trigger-pull weight, we arrived at an average of about 7.2 pounds. One new winner* is announced every week! Boasting nice crisp break, the trigger also has a short reset allowing the gun to run fast. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Both rifles have a similar price, $809 for the Saint with discount code and $799 for the Tread. It provides added backpressure for reliable cycling. The "Tread yellow marking" is just an mlok insert, mine didn't even come with one, but you can easily remove it. I've shot the Saint a few times and my local lgs and I like the trigger, feel and ergonomics. Compare specifications of Sig Sauer SIGMCX Rattler 300 AAC Blackout PMCX-300B-5B-TAP-PSB and Springfield Saint Victor Pistol 300 AAC Blackout STV909300B. I usually have to take break between mags. But its really a 100-yard rifle with supersonic ammunition. The result was sub-MOA groups (less than 1 inch center to center) from two of the five test ammunitions, including our lightest bullet and our heaviest. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. With regard to accuracy, I wasnt just worried that a 5.5-inch barrel, which sports just 3.25-inches of rifling, would shoot minute of bucket, I was worried there wouldnt be enough spin to stabilize heavy bullets out to 100 yards. The 3rd pic is the new Snakebite M400 5.56 Rifle , But It's a stock photo . From the beginning, we discovered an inordinate amount of creep in the trigger. No. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. Personally Id avoid Springfield due to personal issues with the company and their politics. I'll go with the Sig and do those upgrades for sure. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, it's perfect. The Rattler has a one in five twist rate. Before we get there, lets look at the concept of the personal-defense weapon (PDW). Your welcome BET7, I've looked at the Christensen Arms and pretty sweet , Also was dead set on getting a Danial defense DD4 after shooting it at the expo , but didn't . Following the success of its initial collaboration with Vertx, Premier Body Armor announces its continued partnership. The abbreviated configurations of Americas favorite firearm are practically perfect in every way. Thus, stabilizing subsonic ammo not an issue. SIG MCX Rattler SBR . Ive tested full-size rifles that werent any more accurate than that. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. All in, our CMMG rifle displayed 1-MOA accuracy on average for all shots fired, despite our difficulties with the trigger. Spring loaded at rest, there was a platform on each side that released the sight instantaneously to its vertical position. As a PDW cartridge, the .223/5.56, unlike the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, is grossly inefficient. These two hunting loads made perfect little holes and passed through their blocks without expanding. It uses a specialized upper receiver that is designed to be as compact as possible. As to the brace, its a Tailhook Mod 2, an adjustable model that does an excellent job of settling in the gun. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. HKs MP7 has never been available in any commercial form. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. SIG P320 TACOPS vs Springfield XDM Elite 4.5 Tactical 19,446 views Mar 13, 2020 370 Dislike Share Save Hammer Striker 79.8K subscribers In this video we compare two tactical offerings: The new. To carry the Rattler discreetly, I used Eberlestocks Combat Office Brief, which represents a typical messenger bag, as well as several other covert packs in my inventory, including some camera bags. Its perfect for indoor situations where 25 yards is a long shot and overpenetration is a concern. However, if youre shooting supersonic, its right on target. I can't get my hands on the DD5 which I really prefer. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. Given the test barrel used to produce this data was likely 20 inches or more in length, we think this was still somewhat out of spec.

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